Monday, July 03, 2006

Nonduality And Spirituality---Enlightenment

I saw a very good post in Vince's blog about the supposed types of enlightenment. enlightenment A---which is causeless and timeless, one which is always present
enlightenment B---which is a gradual refinement of consciousness and going into the highere realms of consciousness through certain procedures and exercises.

The question was that a person had done 20 years of vipassana meditation , but after reading about nonduality and going deeper into it, his point of view totally changed and now he believes that vipassana doesnt do anything to enlighten a person.So, is it really so? Can doing 20 years of meditation have no role in the change in his point of view?

What do you think?

My answer was this:---

A very tricky question indeed. Although I would think that 20 years of vipassana meditation does have a role to play in this because one can only see or realize enlightenment A(which is always present)when the mind chatter has slowed down a lot and one is detached enough from one's desires and fears.

This is because the presence or beingness i.e. enlightenment A is always there. One has to clear ones mind enough to see it.

The tricky part then is that how can the causeless the everpresent be the result of something, but this thought comes only when one thinks that it was not there in the first place and doing certain processes and procedures caused this. Thus the illusion of causing the causeless comes into the picture.


At 8:11 AM , Blogger chueewowee said...

An interesting post and example to many of us. Your reasoning appears to be sound. An interesting post

I'm doubtful about two types of enlightenment according to method. If types both are available to all, then progress is an illusion. Yet we may be uplifted, we may fall.

More fitting I would say is, things happen. The path, dharma, progress, unfolds according to how we think and act, exactly. So, meditating for 10 years says nothing of goals, or the quality of our action, which may be dual, and likely so.
Non-duality teachings are an antidote to dual thinking, thus realization is gained. This meditator may have progressed, but only to say his slow progress was due to the wrong method. That statement reflect s upon his goal. Humbleness is required. I mean to say, we need to break free from dualistic goals and selfish pride in our spiritual endeavours. Dualistic goals include dualistic paths like worshiping methods.

We are making progress according to what we put in. I imagine he will abandon non-dual teachings to become a bhakti devotee, where it's more difficult to worship method, (intellectual, ritualistic, or psychophysical) and objectify a goal as something to attain for himself (- enlightenment in one sense), rather than his relationship to this truth of nature, and a letting go. And then he might say the non-dual teachings are merely intellectual persuits, with little merit, even if they are true, and that he spent thirty years studying them.

Such a short time! Only ten in vipassana! He should give them much more time, or go straight for bhakti yoga. Either way humbleness is required.

I think humbleness allows us full use of our intellect (reasoning..antidotes) and heart (visions..action).

At 9:22 AM , Blogger Faraz Ahmed said...

Well, chueewowee, I would say that yes progress is an illusion but from the point of view of the individual it seems so real.

Whose progress are you talking about . The person, the individual doesnt actually exist except in the minds and the stories that we keep continuing.

You say humbleness is the key. Umm, just to see that there is no individual or person will make you humble . Because you realize that you are not the doer and whatever is being done is just happening by itself.

Realization is always sudden. It is not attained by progressing slowly or fast. It is timeless and uncausal and cannot be attained by the efforts of an individual because the individual is not there in the first place.
thats all for now.

faraz ahmed
author of Self Improvement & Spirituality Blog


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